Corona virus COVID-19 Discussie topic

[Live]

Zuid-Korea wordt al wekenlang genoemd als een voorbeeld waar men de situatie redelijk onder controle lijkt te hebben.

Onderstaand interview is een aanrader om te kijken, ik hoop oprecht dat onze experts in Nederland volledig op de hoogte zijn van de inhoud hiervan.
Professor Kim Woo-joo, expert van het Korea University Guro Hospital, geeft op een rustige, indringende en duidelijke manier uitleg over de Corona Covid-19 pandemie, met alle (on)mogelijkheden en uitdagingen.

Opvallende uitspraak in de 15e minuut en verder over het gebruik van mondmaskers:
Hij is ervan overtuigd dat iedereen mondmaskers zou moeten dragen, zoals gebruikelijk in Azië, en dat dit een groot verschil maakt in de verspreiding van het virus.
Hij denkt ook dat de instanties in VS (en Europa) dit ook weten, maar dit tegenspreken omdat er hier veel te weinig maskers zijn en deze beschikbaar moeten blijven voor het medisch personeel.  

Al met al vind ik is dit interview duidelijker dan vele van de experts die ik de afgelopen weken op de Nederlandse televisie heb zien langskomen.

[Live]

You Need To Listen To This Leading COVID-19 Expert From South Korea

Transcript of Professor Kim’s First Interview - part 1

For anyone who had trouble reading the subtitles or straight up prefers to read, here is the official transcript of our interview with Professor Kim. Enjoy!

————————-

Hey everybody, it's Stephen from Asian Boss.

With the whole world seemingly on lockdown, there is a lot of panic and misinformation that's going around about the coronavirus. South Korea is widely acknowledged for having had one of the best responses to contain the pandemic. Yes, everyone here is wearing a mask but that doesn’t mean they are all sick. They are just protecting themselves before getting tested, which itself is widely available. It’s probably not an exaggeration to say that it is one of the safest places to be in right now, relatively speaking of course.

If you are wondering what it is that Korea has done that was so effective, and also want to get the most accurate information on the coronavirus, today, we've come to Korea University Guro Hospital to talk with the most prominent coronavirus expert in the country. He's waiting for us as we speak, so let's go ask him as many questions as we can.

----------------

Asian Boss (AB): Thank you for meeting with us today, Professor. Could you briefly introduce yourself?

Professor Kim (Kim): I'm currently working at Korean University Guro Hospital in Seoul as a professor in the Department of Infectious Diseases. I've been working in this field since 1990, so that's about 30 years. And during those years, I've dealt with many infectious diseases, including tuberculosis, AIDS, measles, SARS in 2003, the 2009 flu pandemic (swine flu), Ebola in 2014, as well as the MERS outbreak in 2015. From all my 30 years of experience, I can tell you that this COVID-19 pandemic is the most challenging.

AB: What kind of work are you doing in relation to COVID-19?

Kim: When people with COVID-19 symptoms come to the hospital, I look after some of those patients. I also take care of inpatients and because I'm the most senior
member of our staff, it's my job to go on national TV to talk about COVID-19 and provide the most accurate information to the public. I also try to talk to journalists to get the information out.

AB: So as an expert on this matter, could you tell us where COVID-19 comes from? Why is it so infectious and why does it have such a high fatality rate?
 
Kim: In December 2019, in the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, China, we started seeing pneumonia cases of an unknown cause, which led to deaths. When the Chinese government became aware of the issue, they notified the World Health Organization (WHO) on December 31, 2019. So, it hasn't even been 3 months. Based on our 2-3 months of research, this coronavirus originally came from bats. It was in a wet market in Wuhan where the virus is believed to have been transmitted to a human. Of course, there had to have been intermediate hosts, whether it be pangolins or snakes. We are not entirely sure yet. Anyways, the virus known as SARS-CoV-2 that caused COVID-19 jumped from a bat to an intermediate host, a pangolin or a snake, and then to a human, resulting in severe pneumonia. The death rate is 2 to 3% on average. Because this is a new virus that we've never encountered before, we don't have any treatments or vaccines. In every country, the number of patients is exploding. Europe is especially bad, and in the US, especially in big cities like New York, things are getting worse. I'd say it's a very serious threat at the moment.

AB: Many people still don't know much about COVID-19. Do you have the data on the death rate?

Kim: The death rate varies depending on the country. Even though it's the same virus, every country has different quarantine protocols, different levels of sophistication for healthcare, and different demographics. For countries with a large elderly population like Italy, the death rate is very high at around 8 to 9%.

AB: Is there any data on the death rate by age group? For example, from 20s to 30s and 30s to 40s, etc.

Kim: I actually have the numbers with me. - Today is March 24th, right? As of today, the numbers are...there are 8,961 confirmed cases in Korea, and 111 patients have died. But 3,166 patients have fully recovered. We do a lot of tests in Korea, and out of about 9,000 confirmed cases, we found that around 20% show no symptoms. Therefore, overall, we have a better grasp of the extent of infection compared to other countries. When we categorize by age group, the death rate for those over the age of 80 is 11.6%. This is in Korea. For people in their 70s, the death rate of 6.3%. 1.5% for people in their 60s, and 0.4% for those in their 50s. And you’re probably curious about the stats for younger people. We had one 40-year-old patient die and one 30-year-old patient die. So the death rate for those in their 40s is 0.1% and 0.1% for 30s as well. So far, we haven't seen any deaths in the teens and 20s. This means that in Korea, 90% of those who died are over the age of 60.

AB: Then why is this virus so deadly to the elderly?

Kim: COVID-19 is a new virus that doesn't have a vaccine and cannot be treated. The only thing that can fight the virus is your own immune system. For those between their teens and 40s, they might only experience mild cold-like symptoms for 1 to 2 weeks and recover afterwards.

AB: And they can be asymptomatic?

Kim: Yes. If we look at the data for Korea, 20% of about 9,000 patients have no symptoms. That's the tricky thing because an asymptomatic patient can still spread the virus. However, if you’re over 60, your immune system deteriorates. It is called immunosenescence. Especially if you’re over 80, just like a cancer patient for comparison's sake, your immune system starts deteriorating rapidly. That is why if those in their 70s or 80s get infected, they are overmatched and can't fight the virus. Because the virus can lead to pneumonia or inflammation all over the body, the virus can put the elderly in critical states and increase the chances of death. Also, those with chronic medical conditions are another high risk group. Even if they're under 60, if they have any cardiovascular problems, a chronic lung condition, diabetes, or are smokers. Because nicotine can accumulate in their respiratory system, they also can get very sick. Even those using immunosuppressives like steroids or anticancer drugs are at risk as well.

AB: Let's say you already got the virus. - Can you get reinfected after you recover?

Kim: Yes. That's the scary part. There's still so much we don't know. Usually when we get sick, it takes about 2 weeks for our body to develop antibodies. Then we don't get sick from the same virus. But with COVID-19, we've seen cases where a patient got COVID-19, recovered, and was discharged. But after 5 to 7 days, they started to show the COVID-19 symptoms again. We are seeing these "re-activation" cases. It sometimes happens.

AB: Then how do we catch COVID-19? For example, some might think they'll catch it just by breathing, whereas others might think that they need to be sneezed on to catch it.

Kim: There are 3 main ways to get infected. Once the virus infects our respiratory system, the main symptoms are a fever, coughing, and breathing difficulties. So when you cough or sneeze, you produce droplets.

AB: Basically, you’re spitting?

Kim: Correct. It has to be bigger than 5 microns to be considered a droplet, and one droplet contains many viruses. I mean the ones from an infected patient. Because droplets are bigger than 5 microns in size, when you cough or sneeze, droplets you shoot out like a rainbow will typically land within about 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.6 feet). At that point, the virus can infect our eyes, nose, or mouth…

AB: It could infect your eyes as well?

Kim: Yes, through the mucous membrane. I've heard rumors of one being infected just by looking, but that's false.

AB: How about through the air? What if I walk through the same area
that an infected person passed?

Kim: Air is a slightly different issue. I'll explain that later. Anyway, the most common route is transmission through droplets. The second route is, when we sneeze and have a runny nose, we tend to wipe our nose with our hands, right? It's almost subconscious. Now, the virus is on our hands. Then I shake your hand. Now I have transmitted the virus to you through direct contact. That's the second way. Lastly, when a patient coughs or sneezes, their droplets land on nearby surfaces like tables, door handles, or keyboards. Then the virus can survive anywhere from a few hours to beyond 3 or 4 days.

AB: 3 or 4 days?

Kim: Yes.

AB: What about a wooden surface like this? How long would the virus
survive here?

Kim: Probably up to 3 days on a table like this. On paper or fabric on our clothes, the virus can't survive for too long.

AB: How long?

Kim: For paper, maybe a day. It depends on the temperature and humidity. For example, in Korean winter where you have 5 to10°C (41 to 50°F) with 30% humidity, the virus can survive for a long time. On a table surface like this, it can even last 5 to 7 days. So when you touch the surface after a few hours, the virus on your hand is still alive. Imagine touching your face with that. Basically, you can't get infected just by breathing then? That's correct. Usually, in our everyday lives, you get infected from the droplet transfer, direct contact, and indirect contact. That being said, you can get infected through the air under certain circumstances. This is called aerosol transmission or airborne transmission. Recently, thousands from a religious group
called Shincheonji got infected in Korea. The church was on the tenth floor of a building, inside a closed space. Windows were closed since it was winter. Imagine these hundreds of people gathered within 1 to 2 meters of each other praying and singing for hours. If one infected person
is present, think about the number of droplets produced. We all spit even when we talk normally. But if you are singing and shouting, you are going to get a lot of droplets. Remember how I said a droplet is bigger than 5 microns? When people are shouting and screaming, gravity doesn't pull all the spit down, which means the droplets don't land within 1 to 2 meters. Because the air can also flow sideways as well, right? So when you shout, the droplet can travel much farther than 1 to 2 meters and dry out in the process. The size of the droplet shrinks to less than 5 microns, and it turns into aerosol. Because aerosols are light, they don't get affected much by gravity. They can jump much farther than 2 meters (6.6 feet). That's how a person standing quite a few feet away can still get infected. That's airborne transmission. This is why isolated gathering places like churches, call centers, or any densely-packed areas where people are shouting or eating are at risk. But in regular outdoor environments like parks and hiking trails, because they are not in a closed space, airborne transmission is unlikely.

AB: In your opinion, who should get tested for COVID-19?

Kim: First of all, if you have a fever or sore throat, you are coughing, or having any difficulty breathing, you should get tested. This is especially important for the elderly and those in the high risk group, even if they're experiencing fatigue, loss in appetite or mild aches all over. In some cases, which was confirmed by our team of researchers, about 30% of those infected by COVID-19 can't smell or taste anything. You basically lose your senses of smell and taste, and that can last for 5 to 10 days. That's 30% and I'd say that's a pretty unique symptom.

AB: What if I want to get tested? I mean, I don't think I'm sick, so does that mean I can't get tested?

Kim: You can always pay for it yourself and get tested. It's 170,000 Won (USD 140). But if you test positive, you get your money back. Or if a doctor thinks that your data is valuable, the test is free. In South Korea, if you test positive, the government will pay for your test. I don't think many other countries do that.

AB: You said that the virus can infect you through your eyes. When we look around these days, it's fair to say that almost every Korean is wearing a mask outside.

Kim: Right.

AB: So today, I've brought my own mask as well. But if the virus can go into your eyes, what's the point of wearing a mask?

Kim: But you are wearing glasses.


AB: Wait so the glasses help as well?

Kim: Of course. I mentioned eyes, nose, and mouth because there are mucous
membranes inside them. It's inside your eyelids and nose. The same goes for your mouth. The virus can't go through the skin. These mucous membranes have a receptor called ACE2. The virus has to stick to those receptors. We don't have receptors on our skin. Our skin actually acts as a sort of a barrier. For example, the virus can't go through your ears.

AB: So how effective is wearing a mask in general?

Kim: It's definitely effective. During the SARS outbreak, in Hong Kong, Singapore,
Canada, Taiwan, and China, a lot of medical professionals were infected. They didn't even realize at first. Even now, medical professionals in Wuhan and Italy are getting infected. According to the research, medical professionals wearing masks have a significantly lower chance of getting infected than those who don't. In the West like Europe and the US, you don't really see people wearing masks.

AB: Right.

Kim: I find that quite odd. The US Surgeon General said people didn't need to wear masks and WHO recommended people not to wear masks, but I'd have to disagree. I did read his tweet and you have to understand the context. I think the point was to prevent the public from hoarding masks because medical professionals need them more. If medical professionals run out of masks, they can't even treat patients, right? In other words, because masks are in
short supply in the US, medical professionals should be prioritized.

AB: Because the medical professionals need masks more...

Kim: That's right.

AB: So people should wear masks then. What I have here is a KF94 mask. I think this one is equivalent to the N95 respirator.

Kim: Yes, it's comparable. Wearing a KF94 mask is almost the same as wearing a N95 one. So Koreans are wearing masks meant for doctors.

AB: But these days, when I go outside, almost all of them are wearing these KF94 respirators. So the bottom line is, wearing a mask does help?

Kim: Of course it does. Why else would doctors in hospitals wear masks? They wear them because they prevent infection. During the SARS and MERS outbreaks, masks were proven to work.

AB: Then can we say that, because everyone in Korea wears a mask, there is less infection in general?

Kim: Absolutely. If you look at WHO's recommendations, they don't encourage normal people to wear masks. However, in Asian countries, because of the cultural differences, they do recommend people to wear masks. That's what they say, which I think is problematic. Masks have been proven to prevent infection. Just look at China, Hong Kong, Japan, and Korea. In Asian countries, people wear masks. In the meantime, if you look at many European countries and the US, the virus is spreading rapidly. One of the reasons Korea has a relatively low rate of infection is because everyone is wearing a mask and washing their hands regularly.

[Live]

Transcript of Professor Kim’s First Interview - part 1

Transcript of Professor Kim’s First Interview > part 2

AB: Korea is being praised for its quick response and doing a lot of testing. How much testing is
actually being done in Korea?

Kim: We are doing 15,000 tests daily. So in total, 338,000 tests have been carried out so far. Well, until March 23, 2020, 338,000 tests have been done.

AB: But other countries are not able to carry out that much testing, so how is Korea able to test over 300,000 people so quickly?

Kim: Because Korea already went through the 2009 flu pandemic (swine flu), and the 2015 MERS outbreak five years back, many Koreans are already educated on the matter. Since they experienced it before. We know that washing our hands and wearing masks helps prevent infection. During the MERS outbreak, we already figured out that we need to quickly develop test kits and use them. At the time, I was the chief of Korea's rapid response team for MERS. And then, we realized that we couldn't develop medicine or a vaccine right away. But we can make test kits that use PCR (polymerase chain reaction), which is a very effective method for diagnosis. So we emphasized on making these test kits quickly and making them easily accessible. A patient could be coughing and have a fever, but we need to know whether they have COVID-19 in order to quarantine them, treat them, and find out where they've been and who they've been in contact with, so we can test those people as well and quarantine them if needed. That's the core of prevention. And since the swine flu in 2015, the Korean government has invested a lot in the research and development of these PCR test kits. And more importantly, the companies making these test kits knew they could make a lot of money on this, so they started investing in R&D. This may be capitalism at its finest, but this becomes a competition between companies to get that profit. There was financial motivation.

AB: So this means other countries are already too late to respond? Because they weren't ready?

Kim: That's right. Since 2012, MERS was mostly concentrated in Saudi Arabia, and it's endemic to the Middle East. Outside of the Middle East, the only country MERS had a big impact on was Korea. 186 people got infected and 38 of them passed away. So Korea already went through hell back then, but it was a valuable lesson for us. The reason why Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, and Hong Kong are doing better during this pandemic is because Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan also experienced SARS in 2003, so they already know that if there's an outbreak, their citizens and hospitals will face trouble. They are already experienced with it.

AB: So what's the current situation like in Korea?

Kim: Currently, Korea is controlling the situation better than any other country. But it's not over yet. There's still risk of infection. The problem right now is that there is an increasing number of people who are coming in from Europe or North America and bringing back the virus with them.

AB: So now, it's the opposite.

Kim: Right. It's coming back in. At Incheon Airport right now, people getting diagnosed with COVID-19 is actually increasing.

AB: So are they preventing people from coming in at the Incheon Airport?

Kim: People coming into Korea from Europe have to be tested. Since March 22nd, both Korean citizens and foreigners coming from Europe have to be tested. In fact, 20% of the cases being confirmed daily is of people coming from abroad.

AB: How long does it take for the results to come out after you get tested?

Kim: It usually takes 6 hours, but too many people are getting tested at once. So, people are being stationed at a temporary facility for a day and get their results the next day. If they test positive, critical or serious patients go to a hospital, and less serious cases go to health treatment centers. And if they test negative, they go home and self-quarantine themselves for 2 weeks. And we help them install a self-quarantine app on their smartphones. If they have that app while they're at home, we can track their location. If they step out of their house, an alarm will sound and alert you that you've left the boundaries. And you have to input your symptoms on the app 2 times a day. Like whether you have a fever. Because people who self-quarantine could start getting symptoms after the virus's incubation period. So that's why they record their symptoms on the app. And if the staff monitoring you sees that you didn't input anything on one day, they'll think you're not self-quarantining properly. And then they'll contact them.

AB: I didn't know the Korean government was going to that extent.

Kim: Of course, this could trigger some privacy issues, since we're using location tracking to intrude on people's privacy. I'm sure they are getting people's consent.

AB: I don't think that'd work in the US for example.

Kim: Right. So if you look at the whole COVID-19 situation, every country is dealing with it in a different way depending on their culture and traditions. And Korea has its Asian culture. China has its own culture. China is actually more extreme and that's why it's being controlled well.

AB: In Korea, the start of the school year is being postponed, people are practicing social distancing, and the government even sends regular updates via texts. How well do you think this is all being handled?

Kim: On March 20th, so a couple days ago, the prime minister made a special announcement that he strongly recommends social distancing. So religious facilities, places people hang out, like bars, and indoor gyms...From March 20 for 2 weeks, these 3 types of places were strongly recommended to shut down. But this is not mandatory. People who are over 50 or 60 are following these protocols well. But teens and those in their 20s are not. Because for teens in Korea, their education is very important. Even if they're sick and have a fever, they have to go to school and academy. The school year was postponed for elementary, middle, and high school because of COVID-19, but in the evening kids go to academies. So even if the government pushed back school, kids will still go to academy to study at night. Since I checked last weekend, 90% of academies are open. In Asia, the college you go to determines your future. And high school students especially go to academies at night and study in small spaces. So they'll come in contact with others. And people in their 20s will go to clubs in Gangnam
on Fridays or Saturdays. They won't care at all and won't even wear a mask. They'll dance, drink, and chat in a confined space, and they're not careful. And they'll still go to Internet cafes and karaoke. Actually, 30% of our confirmed cases here in Korea are of people in their 20s. That's very unusual.

AB: As an expert on the matter, how long do you think this COVID-19 situation will last? Some people are saying when summer comes and it gets warmer, it will calm down. Do you think this will persist or can we eradicate the virus?

Kim: This is the question I've been asked the most. It's hard to predict but I can tell you it won't be over quickly.

AB: So is there any hope we can get rid of it completely?

Kim: There are several scenarios. The best case scenario would be...The 2003 SARS outbreak started in November 2002 in the Guangdong Province of China and it spread to Hong Kong, and then through tourists, it spread all over the world infecting about 8,000 people and taking the lives of 774 people. The fatality rate was about 9.6%. And that whole SARS situation ended in the beginning of July 2003. COVID-19 is a new strain of coronavirus similar to SARS, so like that time, if countries all over the world can work together to end this by July or August of this year, that would be the best case scenario. And that it won't infect the human population again. It's possible.

AB: How likely do you think that will be?

Kim: It's not as likely as SARS, so maybe around 10%? Probably lower. Because 2003 is already 17 years ago. Back then, international travel wasn't as frequent. Now, you could say the world is pretty much borderless. The second scenario would be that it stays around until the summer and be gone from the Northern Hemisphere, but in turn, it'll spread in the Southern Hemisphere. Australia, South Africa, and South America have their winter then. And then it'll come back to the Northern Hemisphere in November or December like the seasonal flu. It could have a regular cycle. The last scenario would be that we develop a vaccine. And we'd vaccinate
the whole human race. In 1980, we got rid of smallpox from the face of the planet with vaccines. If we find a very effective vaccine just like back then, we can vaccinate ourselves so this situation won't happen again. We can put an end to it. It's also possible but the most ambitious
and difficult to achieve.

AB: Speaking of the vaccine, how far is the development for a COVID-19 vaccine? And how long will it take until the vaccine can be available to the public? What's the rough time frame on this?

Kim: Inventing a vaccine for a new virus typically takes 10 to 15 years and it'll cost over US$800 million. COVID-19 is not even 100 days old. It's only been 2 months since we got familiar with its DNA. As the director of the US's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Anthony Fauci, said, at the fastest, if everything goes smoothly...So if the clinical trial of the vaccine on a healthy adult successfully goes through the trial Phase 1 to 3 smoothly, it'll take 18 months if all goes well. That's only if everything goes perfectly. But even if the US or China succeed in developing a vaccine, would they share the vaccine with other countries? Was the population of the US about 320 million? That's a lot of people. So it'll be impossible for the US to even vaccinate all their citizens in a short amount of time. It becomes the question of who's the priority.

AB: So the chance of regular people like us getting the vaccine is pretty slim…

Kim: Healthy people in their teens and 20s probably won't be able to get one.

AB: Are you currently participating in the development of a vaccine?

Kim: I'm not directly involved in the development of a vaccine, but there are vaccines and medication. Since a vaccine will take a long time to develop, the quickest thing we can do is what's known as drug repurposing. You know Viagra? People know it as a drug for erectile dysfunction, but it was originally developed for pulmonary arterial hypertension. As a byproduct, it was found to be effective for treating erectile dysfunction. Likewise, we're trying to see if a drug that's already being used for another infectious disease can be effective for COVID-19. And that's called drug repurposing. That's the fastest option we have. Kaletra, a medication for AIDS, and chloroquine, a medication for malaria, were tested and found to be somewhat effective on COVID-19, so they're being used on critical patients. We're also doing clinical trials for remdesivir, a medication for Ebola developed by Gilead Sciences, to see if it's effective for COVID-19. But that needs funding and manpower. We're planning to test a couple of drugs actually. Another quick method is to take the convalescent plasma from the blood of the patients who already recovered from COVID-19. This method has been in use since 100 years back. Within the blood of patients who recovered from COVID-19, there are antibodies that can fight and subdue the virus. So we're asking people who recovered from COVID-19 to donate their blood, so we can give their convalescent plasma to critical patients. That's another thing we're planning. But it's difficult to look after patients and research at the same time. We just need more funding and manpower, but realistically, it's not easy.

AB: What is it that you and other medical professionals need the most at this point?

Kim: Doctors have the responsibility of treating and saving sick patients, and that's what drives us. But to be honest, there's a dilemma because the doctors have been working on-site for 2 months now, so they're very worn out. They're even more worn out than regular people. And they could also catch the virus from their patients. So what doctors need right now is rest. But they can't take a break right now. They're like soldiers on a battlefield fighting against the virus. So they can't take a break while at war. I think that's the most difficult thing for them.

AB: From what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound too optimistic. Given the situation we're in right now, what kind of advice would you give to people all over the world in their teens, 20s, or 30s?

Kim: You may think that you're safe because even if you get it, you'll be fine. You might not be worried about it at all. But if you spread it to an older family member, it can be dangerous and fatal to them. If you think about that, you should wash your hands well, wear a mask, and socially distance yourself from others. You need to protect your own health as well as your family's. That's how you can help end this pandemic our country and the society is facing. Then, every individual will be contributing to ending this outbreak.

AB: We want to thank you again for taking your valuable time. We know how busy you are. For the sake of humanity, if you could continue doing what you're doing, we would be forever grateful.

Kim: It's an honor to be with you. A lot of people from all over the world watch your content, right? So I hope other nations can take note of the measures Korea implemented, while fixing and improving on the things that Korea didn't get quite right. And I hope they can come up with good strategies. This is science. You have to be humble. The moment we become arrogant, we'll lose. Perhaps Europe and the US were a bit overconfident. They might've thought wearing masks doesn't help. But we have to be humble until the end. It's not the end until it's over. That's all I wanted to say.

AB: Thank you so much.

[Live]

Professor Kim Woo-joo, expert van het Korea University Guro Hospital, geeft op een rustige, indringende en duidelijke manier uitleg over de Corona Covid-19 pandemie, met alle (on)mogelijkheden en uitdagingen.

Opvallende uitspraak in de 15e minuut en verder over het gebruik van mondmaskers:
Hij is ervan overtuigd dat iedereen mondmaskers zou moeten dragen, zoals gebruikelijk in Azië, en dat dit een groot verschil maakt in de verspreiding van het virus.
Hij denkt ook dat de instanties in VS (en Europa) dit ook weten, maar dit tegenspreken omdat er hier veel te weinig maskers zijn en deze beschikbaar moeten blijven voor het medisch personeel.  

Kim: I find that quite odd. The US Surgeon General said people didn't need to wear masks and WHO recommended people not to wear masks, but I'd have to disagree. I did read his tweet and you have to understand the context. I think the point was to prevent the public from hoarding masks because medical professionals need them more. If medical professionals run out of masks, they can't even treat patients, right? In other words, because masks are in
short supply in the US, medical professionals should be prioritized.

AB: Because the medical professionals need masks more...

Kim: That's right.

AB: So people should wear masks then. What I have here is a KF94 mask. I think this one is equivalent to the N95 respirator.

Kim: Yes, it's comparable. Wearing a KF94 mask is almost the same as wearing a N95 one. So Koreans are wearing masks meant for doctors.

AB: But these days, when I go outside, almost all of them are wearing these KF94 respirators. So the bottom line is, wearing a mask does help?

Kim: Of course it does. Why else would doctors in hospitals wear masks? They wear them because they prevent infection. During the SARS and MERS outbreaks, masks were proven to work.

AB: Then can we say that, because everyone in Korea wears a mask, there is less infection in general?

Kim: Absolutely. If you look at WHO's recommendations, they don't encourage normal people to wear masks. However, in Asian countries, because of the cultural differences, they do recommend people to wear masks. That's what they say, which I think is problematic. Masks have been proven to prevent infection. Just look at China, Hong Kong, Japan, and Korea. In Asian countries, people wear masks. In the meantime, if you look at many European countries and the US, the virus is spreading rapidly. One of the reasons Korea has a relatively low rate of infection is because everyone is wearing a mask and washing their hands regularly.

https://twitter.com/Teletekst/status/1245860793918214144
https://twitter.com/ADnl/status/1245615041988030471?s=20
https://twitter.com/DeGelderlander/status/1245803610677673990?s=20
https://twitter.com/HartvNL/status/1245755910863101954?s=20
https://twitter.com/Griftpark2013/status/1245865129134047233?s=20
https://twitter.com/PSchollema/status/1245802861159690240?s=20
https://twitter.com/ndnl/status/1245708316313038853?s=20
https://twitter.com/MedemblikFM/status/1245701663178002436?s=20
https://twitter.com/rtvoost/status/1245699521809649664?s=20

[Live]

Dit is al totaal uit de hand gelopen. Het virus vertragen is nu nog de enige oplossing. Zoveel mogelijk menselijk contact vermijden en evenementen afgelasten is het enige wat nog kan. Het is een kwestie van uren of hooguit een paar dagen voordat het in Nederland uitbreekt.

tsja...


https://twitter.com/Sywert/status/1246710250394333185?s=20

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Er zijn landen die het blijkbaar wel voor elkaar hadden en hebben:

https://twitter.com/RTLnieuws/status/1248585660392509448

Helaas blijven wij in Nederland nog steeds regelmatig achter de feiten aanhobbelen...

https://twitter.com/NOS/status/1248391073132457992

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https://twitter.com/KustawBessems/status/1248320386451877888

Luisteren we in de coronacrisis niet naar een te klein groepje deskundigen?
https://www.volkskrant.nl/cultuur-media/luisteren-we-in-de-coronacrisis-niet-naar-een-te-klein-groepje-deskundigen~bc117875/

Dit stuk moet iedereen even lezen, is deels ook een mooie samenvatting van de discussie die we de afgelopen maanden hier ook gevoerd hebben.

Hieronder een paar quotes, maar het is echt een aanrader dit hele stuk te lezen in de Volkskrant.

De veel te lakse houding van het RIVM in februari:

Eind februari vergeleek het RIVM corona nog met de gewone griep. Een kleine week voordat de eerste Nederlandse patiënt werd geregistreerd, hield het hoofd van het Centrum Landelijke Coördinatie Infectieziektebestrijding bij dat RIVM, Aura Timen, in een wat lacherige sfeer een toespraak voor de Koninklijke Nederlandse Akademie van Wetenschappen. Daarin relativeerde zij op de vraag ‘Loopt Nederland gevaar?’ de risico’s van het virus (‘laag risico voor Europa’) en waarschuwde voor iets anders: ‘We lopen het gevaar dat we achter elkaar aan lopen en de maatregelen steeds een stapje hoger opstapelen.’ Een dag voor die toespraak had zij op een vraag van deze krant geantwoord dat zij ‘natuurlijk’ nog handen schudde. ‘Als we maar gewoon de handen blijven wassen. En vertrouwen hebben in de medemens.’

Eefje Rammeloo, China-correspondent voor Trouw en Elsevier, schrijft in een van frustratie druipende terugblik op haar verslaggeving over de corona-uitbraak: ‘Hoe kan het dat de horrorverhalen uit China niemand leken te alarmeren? Nederland lijkt te hebben gedacht dat het coronavirus een Chinese curiositeit is, iets dat nooit ofte nimmer in Nederland kon gebeuren. Was het niet duidelijk dat Wuhan geen armoedig provinciestadje is, maar een van China’s megasteden? Dat de gezondheidszorg er tot de beste van het land behoort?’

Het uitblijven van de maatregelen in Nederland:

Maar het werd maart en het aantal geregistreerde patiënten in Nederland kwam boven de driehonderd en beperkte zich niet tot de provincie Noord-Brabant. En ik kreeg een soort kortsluiting in mijn hoofd. We wisten nu toch echt een paar dingen zeker: dit virus was nieuw, de werking onbekend én het was verschrikkelijk besmettelijk én het werd ook verspreid door mensen met lichte symptomen én het was elders volledig uit de hand gelopen. In Brabant werden maatregelen genomen: geen grote evenementen meer, thuiswerken als het kon en thuisblijven als je verkoudheidsklachten had. Maar die regels werden niet nodig geacht in de rest van Nederland.

Hoe voldeed dit nog aan de wetten van de logica? Waarom zou een virus dat van Wuhan naar Tilburg was gereisd zich veel aantrekken van Nederlandse provinciegrenzen? Sterker, in Coevorden en Diemen bewezen patiënten inmiddels het tegendeel.

Gevraagd naar het relatieve succes van Zuid-Korea in de strijd tegen corona, zei viroloog Marion Koopmans, die ook heeft aangezeten in het Outbreak Management Team: ‘De situatie is er compleet anders. Men hecht er minder aan privacywetgeving en heeft een enorme discipline in sociaal afstand houden. In Korea zijn de restaurants gewoon open: men zit er ruim van elkaar en als het ergens voor eenderde vol zit, gaan mensen er niet meer naar binnen.’

Door dat soort veelgehoorde stereotypen van Koreanen als typische groepsdieren gaan Korea-kenners bijkans door het lint.

Over de discussie rondom de groepsimmuniteit:

Dus óf dit was een misverstand (Rutte) en dan was het een communicatieblunder die zijn weerga niet kende, óf groepsimmuniteit was wel degelijk het doel geweest maar ze zagen er toch maar van af, óf groepsimmuniteit was nog steeds het doel maar ze zeiden het niet meer hardop tegen ons, omdat wij dan te veel in paniek raakten. Iets korter gezegd: ik wist niet meer wat ik moest geloven.

https://twitter.com/KustawBessems/status/1248531400619327489

[Thor]

De bekende en ervaren viroloog Ab Oosterhaus heeft al in een zeer vroeg stadium gewaarschuwd voor een aantal zaken,daarbij gerefereerd aan de ontwikkelingen en maatregelen in het Verre Oosten. Het Rivm heeft een afwachtende houding aangenomen ook toen het Italië en Spanje uit de hand ging lopen.

[silque]

Tja je kunt zeggen wat je wilt, tot op heden loopt het wel precies zoals voorspeld (en zelfs beter!). De Belgen hadden de grootste mond, Nederland deed te weinig en was een groot risico.
Waar België in het begin nog relatief 'lage' cijfers had, zijn ze Nederland inmiddels gepasseerd ondanks dat de maatregelen hier veel strenger zijn.

Ik geloof ook wel dat we iets eerder hadden kunnen ingrijpen en dat we in NL onvoldoende voorbereid zijn op zulke rampen, maar we moeten er nu het beste van maken en dat lukt m.i. aardig.
De zwarte scenario's die roare hier geschetst heeft zijn ook verre van realistisch meer.

[Live]

Tja je kunt zeggen wat je wilt, tot op heden loopt het wel precies zoals voorspeld (en zelfs beter!). De Belgen hadden de grootste mond, Nederland deed te weinig en was een groot risico.
Waar België in het begin nog relatief 'lage' cijfers had, zijn ze Nederland inmiddels gepasseerd ondanks dat de maatregelen hier veel strenger zijn.

Kleine nuance, in België hebben ze vandaag ook alle doden die vermoedelijk besmet waren in een woonzorgcentrum of thuis meegeteld:

9 UUR GELEDEN

325 nieuwe doden in België, veel in woonzorgcentra
In België zijn de afgelopen 24 uur 325 nieuwe doden als gevolg van het coronavirus gemeld. Het gaat om bevestigde coronapatiënten en mensen van wie wordt vermoed dat ze het virus hadden. De bevestigde gevallen, 114, lagen in het ziekenhuis. De doden die vermoedelijk besmet waren, lagen in een woonzorgcentrum of thuis. Dat waren er 211, meldt de VRT.

Bovenop dat sterftecijfer komen nog 171 doden in woonzorgcentra, die in de periode 18 tot 31 maart waren te betreuren en nog niet eerder waren meegeteld. Het totale dodental in België komt daarmee op 3019. Opvallend is dat ruim 40 procent van de doden niet werd geteld in het ziekenhuis, maar in verzorgingscentra of elders.

 

Uit de cijfers van het CBR blijkt vandaag dat het sterftecijfer in Nederland wel eens twee keer zo hoog kan zijn omdat veel doden in Nederland (door het niet testen) ook niet worden meegeteld:
Sterfte corona waarschijnlijk twee keer hoger, blijkt weer uit CBS-cijfers

Het is in Nederland dus absoluut niet 'beter' dan in België.